Originally Posted by Isileth @Loviatar Are you suggesting the devs would never change anything? Because they have. They have even changed things Gaile has come out and told us they would not be changing.

Originally Posted by Isileth

Proff, whats the problem of others having the title?

I disagree, I dont get titles to brag or showoff to others, I see the titles as simply challenges in the game for me.

Originally Posted by Isileth

I disagree, I dont get titles to brag or showoff to others, I see the titles as simply challenges in the game for me.

Originally Posted by Proff

That's the problem, there's NO challenge in getting a title when you've beat everything, all you're proving is you can farm without dying. Hurray for you, If you want a challenge and you haven't vanguished everything then that's something worth doing. Now if you have vanquished everything then don't waste you're time proving you can farm.

Originally Posted by Loviatar

sorry to call you a fibber first class but it seem to be so.

if it were for the challenge you would do it on a fresh character rather than *THAT* title loaded character.

Originally Posted by Loviatar

one thing i really have to ask all of you change it so i can get it ( you know who you are.)

how many death resets are you asking for anyway?

1 reset ?
3 resets?
10 resets?
reset me until i get the points?

Originally Posted by Loviatar

why not simply have anybody who has accumulated the required points no matter the death count get it?

Originally Posted by StelardActek

I'm fairly sure I mentioned that the NPC I'm suggesting would not offer resetting of the title track to those who already have LS or LDoA.

Originally Posted by TaCktiX

The point here is that the current way the game is set, it is in your best interest to put as many titles on ONE character as possible. KoaBD is not an account title, sad to say (I'd be nearly Rank 6, what with my 15 Protector titles around all characters). THe point that you are completely missing while supporting it in full is the fact that of the 31 titles you have available (counting LDoA and LS as one since they are mutually exclusive), you have 27 "just play the game" titles (Protectors, GW:EN allegiance, Skill Hunter, Lightbringer, etc.), and 4 total and complete grind titles. Open 10,000 chests (Treasure Hunter), ID 10,000 gold items (Wisdom), be drunk for 10,000 minutes (Drunkard), or get sugar high 10,000 times (Sweet Tooth). I don't know about you, but I'd prefer not to do all 4 just because Legendary Survivor was cut off to me ages ago. My pockets aren't made of money, I don't farm 24/7, I don't really find appealing the thought of doing all of that pure and complete total grind.

And you've said yourself that Legendary Survivor is one of those "just play the game" titles. You have supported the point we have been making this entire time which is "we don't want to do 4 pure grind titles, we'd rather do one NON-grind title." Congratulations in supporting our side of the argument so thoroughly, we do appreciate it.

Originally Posted by RotteN

whining "the title wasn't ment for you, now stfu" doesn't realy fly either. Who are you anyway to tell everyone "what a title was ment for" ? did you design it ? i guess not, so your oppinion is just another oppinion. Therefor, i suggest you either go ask the creator of the title what he realy ment, or find an other argument to back up your own oppinion.
honestly, i still have to see the first guy that can give a decent answer on the very easy question regarding this proposal : why not ?

Originally Posted by Isileth

Again im not doing it to brag, I want to challenge myself to get it by playing "normally".
...
Have you forgotten all that has gone before in this thread? Because I dont want to delete my char or start a new one.
...
Because that wouldnt be surviving? That would be just reach level x.
...
This title, even with resets would still require you to reach the required xp without getting killed.

Originally Posted by Hanok Odbrook

Then why not simply attempt to gather that much XP without dying? If it is the challenge of doing so that you desire, you don't need the title to accomplish that - simply a pencil and a piece of paper. Write down your current XP, add 1,337,500 XP to that number to get the total you need without dying, then go for it. If you do, then Huzzah! Job well done. End of story.

Originally Posted by Hanok Odbrook

In terms of not wanting to create a new character, well, that's kind of one of the points of the title to begin with that most everyone seems to be over looking. It's not just the XP accumulation, but it's accumulating that XP while taking a L1 character through all the areas of the game as you attempt to get them to VL100 (regardless of how easy or difficult one perceives that to be). That is one of the core principles of the title that changing it would remove, thus remove the spirit the title was designed with.

Originally Posted by Raccoon

Thanks to a plethora of skills, armor bonuses and customizable heroes, getting the survivor title is beyond easy if you own all 4 games. But on my second account which just has nightfall, I got legendary survivor on my ranger thanks to stone striker + earthbound insignia and the rangers + 30 defense against elemental attacks. In other words, no excuse to say it's impossible.

Originally Posted by Raccoon

Also, if your character was made at the start of the game and it was not allowed to get the title due to updates, then BOO HOO! Make a new character and try again or stop crying. You cant get it on old characters and never will. No amount of bitching in this thread will sway the developers into caring.

Originally Posted by Raccoon

There should be no changes to the title. It is an elite title for a reason. If you cant stay alive to get the title, then you don't deserve it anyway.

Originally Posted by Isileth

The main reason there is as I said I would also like to get the non grind titles for KOABD.
Since I wouldnt farm survivor I count that as a non grind title for my purposes.

Originally Posted by Isileth

At the start of the game, lets face it no one who has played before is ever going to die.

Originally Posted by Isileth

You can get a run to max armor in very little time.
You can use tomes to get any build.
lvl 10 you can hit GW:EN and the lvl 20 buff, right outside the GW:EN start is an area you could farm with 0 risk to get the title.
You could also get run to most other farms in the game and do that instead.

You could also go with a group hanging at the back to get xp with little risk.
You can do the same but mapout the moment you look in danger.

So the difference in start has no real effect, infact some claim its easier from a new char since you have missions and quests for xp.

Just because thats how the title originally was intended to be does not mean it needs to remain that way.

Originally Posted by TaCktiX

Isileth, give up. Sometimes you just cannot reason with people who are so obsessed with the status quo and their opinion about it that they are blind to having an open mind on anything. I'm tired of trying to argue with the half-dozen people who are vocal detractors, when person after generic person posts ever so often "yeah, /signed, this would be cool," then put their own reasons for why.

I've tried to put rational and reasonable arguments out there for around 11 pages of posts now, and each time they ignore the point and insist on their point. Opinions are opinions, and I am not one to try to dislodge a stubborn opinionist from their opinion.

Originally Posted by Hanok Odbrook

I take it you didn't see the list of a few of the other permanent effects in my previous post regarding quests, and the like?

Originally Posted by Hanok Odbrook

Then LDoA is not a reward for the Perma-Pre players who death leveled their characters to Level 20 in Pre-Searing? What the heck is it then? In regards to Survivor being a reward for players who took characters from Level 1 to VL 100, I think the very parameters of the title speak for itself. Other than that, this issue has been a hot button topic literally since the day the titles went live. I cannot be positive - age has begun to addle my memory, but I do believe that there was a mention way back when from an Anet rep long ago that this was one of the reasons for the title. I could be mistaken, so take it for what it's worth.

Originally Posted by Hanok Odbrook

That is pretty much the text book definition of grind - repeating the same areas and/or activities over and over again to achieve the same results. The fact that you enjoy the experience does not mean it is not grinding, the same that the gold farmer may enjoy what he/she is doing does not mean farming is not grinding. With the title currently as it is, you never need repeat any part of the game or area in order to max it out (quest/mission requirements aside). Presuming that you are a level 20 character who has completed all three campaigns, that leaves only a handful of areas and quests that must be continually repeated until the amount of XP is gathered. Running FoW/UW 10 times to achieve Survivor is grinding.

Originally Posted by Hanok Odbrook

And there's nothing wrong with that, except for the fact that KoaBD is designed so that you will need at least one or more of the grind/PvP titles to reach max level, as well it should. That's the very purpose of the max title track.

Originally Posted by Hanok Odbrook

If only that were true - Since the release of Factions, I have but two characters who managed to reach the first rank. Of those, only one is still going. And this from a gamer who has been playing since the first CRPG's came out in the 70's and 80's, so I think I have but *some* experience and expertise on keeping characters alive, however, things obviously do go wrong.

Originally Posted by Hanok Odbrook

But again, part of the purpose of the track, regardless of how easy or hard one deems it to be is that whole thing about the L1 to VL100. That's the bloody purpose of the track, just like opening 10,000 *high end* chests is the purpose of the Wisdom track - it's not 10,000 chests, but 10,000 *high end* chests, even though there is no difference at all between opening a *low end* chest and a *high end* chest. The purpose of Survivor is not simply *accumulate 1,337,500 XP without dying*, but *accumulate 1,337,500 XP starting with a L1 character without dying.* How you choose to go about satisfying that requirement is your business.

Originally Posted by Hanok Odbrook

And you are also correct that just because the title was set up in a certain way does not mean that it has to stay that way, but the same argument can be made for the other side.

Originally Posted by Hanok Odbrook

Just because it can change, doesn't mean it needs to change or should change, just because you or 3 million other players simply *want* the title for a specific character.

Originally Posted by Hanok Odbrook

As many things in this game have changed (for better or worse, depending on your opinion), just as many have remained as they are since GW went live in April 2005. The decision is ultimately up to Anet and how they envision the game and specific parts of the game, as logical or illogical as we personally view some parts of the game to be.

Originally Posted by Midgar

I'm sorry that I ignored your whining about you're not being able to make an elonian assassin who should be allowed to complete all the Shing Jea and Ascalon quests, but these "permanent effects" are simply so insignificant that no one bothers. At least I haven't seen any threads at all about people discussing that that these quests should be available to everyone.

Originally Posted by Midgar

The difference between LDoA and LS is that LDoA is a pure solo title whereas LS causes inconveniences for other players if you just play normally. If you play the game normally you cannot avoid unexpected situations where you will have to chose between selfish acts that causes inconveniences for the rest of your group and acts that may save your group, but at the cost of -15 % Death Penalty.

Originally Posted by Midgar

Perhaps my point wasn't clear enough. No matter whenever old characters would be granted a chance or not, I would still go to areas such as FoW and UW every now and then. My point is that if my character was granted a chance to get the title I would just be more careful and do my best to survive without having to grind. If it then turned out that I completed FoW and UW x number of times without dying I would just get the title. The title wouldn't make me grind at all as I might have had other reasons go to these areas.
If your definition of grinding is "repeating the same areas and/or activities over and over again" then Legendary Survivor is already a grind title by your very own definition.

Originally Posted by Midgar

If you're doing a quest/GWEN mission/GWEN dungeon and all you're party members/heroes/henches dies and you either don't have a resurrect skill or are unable to resurrect due to too many mobs you will have to zone back to the outpost. This means that you will have to do the area "over again" and if you're unlucky will have to do the area "over and over again" = Grind

Originally Posted by Midgar

If old characters are denied a chance to get it, then why shouldn't new Lvl 1 characters not be denied the same? After all, if you're making a new character and you're keen on getting the title on that specific character, but later it turns out that your character dies due to lag or a sudden disconnect your only choice is to remake the character. This will again cause you to do everything you did on that character all over again and again = Pure Grinding

Originally Posted by Isileth

As I said I wouldnt do that. Getting it to max rank is not my concern. Im simply setting a challenge for myself based on how I play. In this case the grind titles would send me to sleep so im picking the titles I will enjoy getting.

Yeah if you push through the game you will die, my point is when your going for survivor most people arent going to, they will grab a few extra levels, have a high level friend come help them out, grab max armor early etc.

No one here is asking for the title to be changed in that way. They are asking for old chars to have 1 shot at it.

Originally Posted by Isileth

Of course it can, but the point of this thread, and indeed the whole forum, is to discuss possible changes and ideas.
By using the argument of you dont need to change something, you could effectively close the forum. Because there is never a need for anything to be changed.

Its a game, everything is a want.

Now arguments such as I think its a waste of the devs time are fine, because if you think there are more important things thats a completely valid opinion.

Originally Posted by Isileth

Its not as if we are asking for the title to be given to us. We are asking for 1 change to try it, just like everyone else has.

Imagine if SF was locked to any chars that had been created before it came out. Dont you think those players would like to have the same access to it as everyone else?

Its the same with survivor, everyone else gets 1 shot at it, old chars dont.

Originally Posted by Hanok Odbrook

Which is a good thing. I am all for minimizing whatever grind that we can in any game, and the fact that you, like me, prefer to minimize the personal time spent grinding is a commendable thing. But as you yourself mention, we each have a choice of playstyles, and some of those styles may limit what accomplishments can be achieved in the game. Unfortunately, in the case of Survivor, it is one of those things. To ask to have it changed simply because one does not want to grind, or to use the excuse that older characters did not have a shot at it (which is patently untrue, as I have already shown), for me is not sufficient compelling reasons enough to have the title changed.

Originally Posted by Hanok Odbrook

As is the point in any game's forum. To discuss what we love most. The fact that I and many others don't see a need to change this one particular item is not cause in and of itself to say this or any other forum is unnecessary. Not everything in a game is a want, sometimes things are necessary, such as balance changes and such. As many others pointed out here, a lot HAS changed in GW, some of it as a direct result of the forums, and many other things haven't despite the forums. This will just be another one of those things. Personally, I do think that changing the title would be a waste of resources, as I mentioned several posts ago – there are many more things in the game that should be dealt with before this.

Originally Posted by Hanok Odbrook

Well, with this example, we are talking about something quite different – game play content as opposed to bonus content, as I mentioned at the start of this post. SF is actual game content that has a bearing on the in game world and one's ability to play it. Bonus content like mini pets, festival hats, and the non-faction related titles, are pure bonus material and has no affect on game play whatsoever, so is not necessary to obtain. Again, all characters, even old ones, have/had a shot at the title, it's just that with prior to Factions, we didn't know we had a shot – it just ended up being your particular playstyle of choice that granted eventual success or not.

To paraphrase MithranArkanere from Page 16 – why map clear the entire map prior to the Cartographer title? Why cap all elites prior to the Hunter track? Why complete all bonus objectives of missions prior to the protector title? Why death level to reach L20 in Pre prior to the LDoA title? The answer of course comes from how we find challenge/enjoyment playing the game. Survivor is no different. That is why I always played to keep my characters at “You have died 0 times” even before there was a title to have a means to show this to other players (for the record, I do not show the Survivor titles on my two characters anyway). Bearing that in mind, why would anyone want to change the way they got/get the most enjoyment out of the game to a way that may not be enjoyable (otherwise they would have done it from the outset, no?) simply for bonus content that, in the end, has no bearing on the overall game play experience? Again, if just for the challenge, then you simply don't need that title to meet the challenge, just as I didn't when I started playing this game 3 years ago, and still don't.